Installing 7

Subject: Re: Installing 7 Fri Oct 16, 2009 2:39 pm

mgmcc wrote:

I've just tried the "Clone" option in Acronis and it seems to want to delete all existing partitions on the destination disk.

Yes it will do!

The clone option wants to create a "identical" image of your old drive, the only difference being is that each partition is created as a percentage (not the actual MB size)
*********************
(Cloning a HDD is all well and good if both HDD are of the same size and you want to create a exact copy)

The better option (in my opinion) is to use the "Partition Image" option. (NOT Clone)
First of all let me point out why, that is because the size (MB) of the old and new HDD does not matter using this method, (providing the space is available)

1. First, Create separate "Image files" of all you existing partitions.
(If needs-be, save them to a External HDD or CD/DVD, so you can get at them later)

2. Then create all your partitions (the size/s of your choice) on the new HDD.

3. Install the new HDD.

4. Then apply each of the Image files to the selected partition on the new HDD.

This way the new partition size/s are not effected.

*********************

Sorry for any confusion with regards the "Initialise" bit.
That only needs to be done when a "Brand new HDD" is installed and does not show at all in Explorer/My Computer, "but shows-up everywhere else (although not accessible at the time)

_________________
If it ain't broke.
Don't fix it.

Subject: Re: Installing 7 Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:38 pm

oldfogy wrote:

mgmcc wrote:

I've just tried the "Clone" option in Acronis and it seems to want to delete all existing partitions on the destination disk.

Yes it will do!

The clone option wants to create a "identical" image of your old drive, the only difference being is that each partition is created as a percentage (not the actual MB size)
*********************
(Cloning a HDD is all well and good if both HDD are of the same size and you want to create a exact copy)

The better option (in my opinion) is to use the "Partition Image" option. (NOT Clone)
First of all let me point out why, that is because the size (MB) of the old and new HDD does not matter using this method, (providing the space is available)

1. First, Create separate "Image files" of all you existing partitions.
(If needs-be, save them to a External HDD or CD/DVD, so you can get at them later)

2. Then create all your partitions (the size/s of your choice) on the new HDD.

3. Install the new HDD.

4. Then apply each of the Image files to the selected partition on the new HDD.

This way the new partition size/s are not effected.

*********************

Sorry for any confusion with regards the "Initialise" bit.
That only needs to be done when a "Brand new HDD" is installed and does not show at all in Explorer/My Computer, "but shows-up everywhere else (although not accessible at the time)

Right,
Strangely - I replied to this earlier, but it has not "saved" - but I think the site has been having problems - I couldn't get on at all earlier!

Anyway - Good and not so good news.

The good news is that the Clone operation worked fine.
(I take your point concerning the "Partition Image" option) - Questions around this:
1 The image files of the existing partitions - saved to DVD (will it need 140Gb's worth of DVD's?)
2. How do I create partitions on the new drive? (see below)
3. Will the HDD not be installed already to create the partitions?
4. see point 1.

Re the cloning:
I elected the "Manual" option, and managed to keep the 140Gb partition the same size.
The EISA partition has grown (in proportion) as I forgot to limit its size (I think). This is now 37Gb as against the 8Gb it was before. I don't think I can shrink this either, as the options if I right click this sector only shows the HELP option. (no shrink volume etc)

The more worrying aspect is that there is an "unallocated" 519.97Gb portion of this disk which I can't seem to do anything with. (see below:)

I think I can see where I went wrong...

When I initialised the drive (or tried to) using the Kitz link, I had 2 options: GUID partition table, or master boot record (MBR)
It looks like I selected MBR. (If I right click on the "DISK 1" & Properties, the Volume tab shows the "Partition style" as "Master Boot Record (MBR)"

So is there a way to fix this, or am I going to have to wipe the disc and start again.
(I'm not that bothered as it's all good experience, and I need experience on this part of Computing)

Thanks for the patience & advice - Dave Smile

Subject: Re: Installing 7 Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:57 pm

Just create a New Simple Volume of the size you want for the next partition in the Unallocated Space. If it lets you create an "Extended Partition", I would use that option and then create "Logical Drives" within the Extended Partition. There is no limit to the number of Logical Drives you can create in an Extended Partition, but you are restricted to four Primary Partitions.

If you want a "free" partition manager, very similar to Partition Magic, have a look at
Easeus Partition Master Home Edition 4.0.1 which you might find easier to use than Vista's Disk Management.

Incidentally, I'm almost certain that MBR is the correct option to select when initialising a drive that is going to be used to boot the PC.

_________________
Mike

Subject: Re: Installing 7 Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:30 pm

1 The image files of the existing partitions - saved to DVD (will it need 140Gb's worth of DVD's?)
A: No, it only takes a Image of the actual data, not the whole disc (but does also compress it to a degree)

2. How do I create partitions on the new drive?
A: Personally I would start from scratch.

Remove ALL the existing partitions so it is one big drive again.
a: Right click the free space which will show as "Unallocated"
When you chose the option NOT to use the whole disc, the next page will give you the option of creating
a partition to the size you specify (remember, 1GB = 1024MB)
You will now have a disc showing only "one partition" and a "Unallocated space"

b: Right click the unallocated space again and repeat the last process to create the next partiton.

3. Will the HDD not be installed already to create the partitions?
At the moment the HDD is installed as a Slave (Disk 1) Disk 0 is the system disc that is searched first for a OS.
****************

The more worrying aspect is that there is an "unallocated" 519.97Gb portion of this disk which I can't seem to do anything with.
A: Because it still needs formatting.

When I initialised the drive (or tried to) using the Kitz link, I had 2 options: GUID partition table, or master boot record (MBR)
A: Sorry don't know the answer to that.

So is there a way to fix this, or am I going to have to wipe the disc and start again.
A: Start again would be my choice.

**************
This may be a long winded way of doing it, but.
I would create all the partitions first on the new HDD.
Then:
1: Create a Image file of the current C: drive and save to the new drive.
2: Then "MOVE" the image files to some where on the OLD HDD.
3: Change the SATA leads around, so that the new HDD is now DISK 0.
4: Run the Image restore program from the recovery disc.
5: Select the image file from the "old drive" and re-image to the new C: drive.
6: Boot-up the PC and copy any other files across to the now new drive.
7: Or you can leave them there and just delete the old C: drive OS (which will now have a different drive letter)

_________________
If it ain't broke.
Don't fix it.

Subject: Re: Installing 7 Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:33 pm

mgmcc wrote:

Just create a New Simple Volume of the size you want for the next partition in the Unallocated Space. If it lets you create an "Extended Partition", I would use that option and then create "Logical Drives" within the Extended Partition. There is no limit to the number of Logical Drives you can create in an Extended Partition, but you are restricted to four Primary Partitions.

If you want a "free" partition manager, very similar to Partition Magic, have a look at
Easeus Partition Master Home Edition 4.0.1 which you might find easier to use than Vista's Disk Management.

Incidentally, I'm almost certain that MBR is the correct option to select when initialising a drive that is going to be used to boot the PC.

I have just created a new simple volume of 200Gb (It's currently formatting). If I try to create another 200Gb partition, it's automatically creating extended partition (I think)

Is there a way to shrink the cloned EISA partition (currently 37Gb - only needs to be 8Gb)?

This is whats happening now...

Thanks - Dave Smile

Subject: Re: Installing 7 Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:36 pm

mgmcc wrote:

Incidentally, I'm almost certain that MBR is the correct option to select when initialising a drive that is going to be used to boot the PC.

I never came across that (or at least did not notice it) when installing my last new drive in VISTA.
So can't comment on it.

******
Post are overlapping as I'm typing, so may be repeating what Mike has already advised.

_________________
If it ain't broke.
Don't fix it.

Subject: Re: Installing 7 Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:41 pm

oldfogy wrote:

1 The image files of the existing partitions - saved to DVD (will it need 140Gb's worth of DVD's?)
A: No, it only takes a Image of the actual data, not the whole disc (but does also compress it to a degree)

2. How do I create partitions on the new drive?
A: Personally I would start from scratch.

Remove ALL the existing partitions so it is one big drive again.
a: Right click the free space which will show as "Unallocated"
When you chose the option NOT to use the whole disc, the next page will give you the option of creating
a partition to the size you specify (remember, 1GB = 1024MB)
You will now have a disc showing only "one partition" and a "Unallocated space"

b: Right click the unallocated space again and repeat the last process to create the next partiton.

3. Will the HDD not be installed already to create the partitions?
At the moment the HDD is installed as a Slave (Disk 1) Disk 0 is the system disc that is searched first for a OS.
****************

The more worrying aspect is that there is an "unallocated" 519.97Gb portion of this disk which I can't seem to do anything with.
A: Because it still needs formatting.

When I initialised the drive (or tried to) using the Kitz link, I had 2 options: GUID partition table, or master boot record (MBR)
A: Sorry don't know the answer to that.

So is there a way to fix this, or am I going to have to wipe the disc and start again.
A: Start again would be my choice.

**************
This may be a long winded way of doing it, but.
I would create all the partitions first on the new HDD.
Then:
1: Create a Image file of the current C: drive and save to the new drive.
2: Then "MOVE" the image files to some where on the OLD HDD.
3: Change the SATA leads around, so that the new HDD is now DISK 0.
4: Run the Image restore program from the recovery disc.
5: Select the image file from the "old drive" and re-image to the new C: drive.
6: Boot-up the PC and copy any other files across to the now new drive.

7: Or you can leave them there and just delete the old C: drive OS (which will now have a different drive letter)

The start again option is looking good, but I'm going to try things out first, so that I make my mistakes on this drive, at the same time, then, I can scrub the drive and start again with new Knowledge.

Dave Smile

Subject: Re: Installing 7 Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:31 pm

Well I have done some experimenting over the weekend, and have downloaded the Easeus Partition Master Home Edition 4.0.1.

I have got to a situation where the new disc now only contains the cloned EISA partition, and I can't delete this!
As before the "Computer" doesn't show the EISA partitions, so I can't "format" the new drive?

A second point:
I have Vista on my 140Gb drive, and an EISA recovery partition on the 8Gb inaccessible section. If I activate the recovery partition will it overwrite the C drive, or can it me made to create a new "C" drive on another partition on a separate drive?

Thirdly:
I have read different posts concerning dual boot etc. Should I keep my 140Gb HDD (Current one) as my Vista drive, and then Install Windows 7 on my new Drive.
I can choose the boot choice from the BIOS and by pressing F8 on boot up, so I can choose which drive to boot up to.

Thanks - Dave Smile

Subject: Re: Installing 7 Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:55 pm

mgmcc wrote:

Just create a New Simple Volume of the size you want for the next partition in the Unallocated Space. If it lets you create an "Extended Partition", I would use that option and then create "Logical Drives" within the Extended Partition. There is no limit to the number of Logical Drives you can create in an Extended Partition, but you are restricted to four Primary Partitions.

If you want a "free" partition manager, very similar to Partition Magic, have a look at
Easeus Partition Master Home Edition 4.0.1 which you might find easier to use than Vista's Disk Management.

Incidentally, I'm almost certain that MBR is the correct option to select when initialising a drive that is going to be used to boot the PC.

Just installed Easeus Partition Master Home Edition 4.0.1, and it's so easy to use.

I have wiped my Vista Clone, but the EISA partition remained, and I have now resized it with EPM. I'm toying with trying to reload Vista HP onto a newly created partition on the 750Gb Drive using the discs that came with the Computer. This will give me Vista as I had it when I bought the Computer, and I can then load just what I need. (I would physically disconnect my original drive, so no data would be at risk).

Is it also possible to create an image of my current Vista set up and put it onto the new drive, and then make it bootable (Like the clone I did before) ?

Thanks - Dave Smile

Subject: Re: Installing 7 Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:31 pm

Quote:

Is it also possible to create an image of my current Vista set up and put it onto the new drive, and then make it bootable (Like the clone I did before)?

You can create a normal Acronis backup image of your existing Vista installation in separate media (external USB drive?) then restore that into the new drive. You would probably have problems if you tried to restore the backup in addition to installing a clean copy of Vista, because you'd have to edit Vista's Boot Manager to be able to select the operating system to load. Also, both the clean copy and the restored copy would have their own Boot Manager and I suspect this could cause a real mess.

The correct procedure would be to restore an image of your existing installation and then, if you want, install a clean copy of Vista. This way, the existing installation will be found and the Boot Manager set up correctly for two operating systems.

_________________
Mike

Subject: Re: Installing 7 Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:30 pm

mgmcc wrote:

Quote:

Is it also possible to create an image of my current Vista set up and put it onto the new drive, and then make it bootable (Like the clone I did before)?

You can create a normal Acronis backup image of your existing Vista installation in separate media (external USB drive?) then restore that into the new drive. You would probably have problems if you tried to restore the backup in addition to installing a clean copy of Vista, because you'd have to edit Vista's Boot Manager to be able to select the operating system to load. Also, both the clean copy and the restored copy would have their own Boot Manager and I suspect this could cause a real mess.

The correct procedure would be to restore an image of your existing installation and then, if you want, install a clean copy of Vista. This way, the existing installation will be found and the Boot Manager set up correctly for two operating systems.

I assume that I can't use a partition on the new drive for storing the image? I have no room on my external USB drive.

Thanks - Dave Smile

Subject: Re: Installing 7 Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:44 pm

dave1510 wrote:

I assume that I can't use a partition on the new drive for storing the image? I have no room on my external USB drive.

[/quote]
Yes you can store it on a separate partition on the same drive, providing it is not the full "Disc Clone", but only a "Image" of the OS partition.

We may refer to it as a partition, but the OS regards it as a separate drive.

_________________
If it ain't broke.
Don't fix it.

Number of posts: 28 Registration date: 2008-10-14

Forgive me for butting into Dave's thread, but could someone clarify/confirm something in the link given at the top of the thread regarding Win7 installation? Am I reading the installation proceedure correctly, when it states that Win 7 can be installed on a slave drive, whilst leaving the existing OS, [in my case XP], running on the "master" [C] drive? In the past, the older OS had to be removed, the latest OS installed on the C drive, and then the old OS re-installed on the slave, regards, moxy...

Subject: Re: Installing 7 Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:24 pm

moxy wrote:

Am I reading the installation proceedure correctly, when it states that Win 7 can be installed on a slave drive, whilst leaving the existing OS, [in my case XP], running on the "master" [C] drive?

Not sure if this answers the question, but for XP & Vista....

PC 1: My first Dual-boot system was with installing Vista onto a separate "partition" with XP already installed.
PC 2: My second Dual-boot system was with installing XP onto a separate "partition" with Vista already installed.
(EasyBCD was then installed to make life easier to chose which OS to automatically boot into)
"Which also works with Windows7"

The only difference here is that I used partitions of the same HDD, and not separate HDD.
I don't know if Windows7 is that different that it has to be installed onto a separate HDD.

_________________
If it ain't broke.
Don't fix it.

Number of posts: 28 Registration date: 2008-10-14

Thanks for your reply old fogey. Win 7 does not HAVE to be installed on to a slave drive, it's just that I always have a slave for my dual boot, [mainly for video editing, I can edit 2 movies at the same time]. Reading the write-ups of Win 7 it seems that you can install it without upsetting your existing OS, where-as in the past, the old OS had to be removed, the newer OS had to be installed, then the older OS re-installed after. If I'm reading things correctly, then things have progressed and I can bang Win 7 onto my slave without upsetting my existing XP on drive C, thanks again, moxy...